I've mentioned previously the wide-ranging and intense theological debate raging on within Messianic Judaism (MJ) concerning MJ identity, its relationship with the Church and the extent to which Messianic believers ought to be integrated into a church or Torah-observant MJ synagogue. Richard Harvey's book mentioned in that post has gone some way to mapping out the various expressions of MJ.
For those of you seeking to understand this volatile debate on ecclesiology and how it has fragmented the MJ movement, the Rosh Pina Project is a website where issues such as this, of immense importance to MJ, are debated. There, a post recently sought to highlight a possible link between Mark Kinzer and Jesuit spirituality. Mark Kinzer is author of Post-Missionary Messianic Judaism, a book which has caused considerable debate within the movement concerning its ecclesiology, and who belongs to the Torah-observant wing of MJ. Within this branch of the movement are some who not only declare Messianic believers must fully observe the Mosaic Law, but also the ideal for them is to congregate in a wholly Jewish setting in order to retain their Jewish identity, rather than attend Evangelical congregations where their Jewish identity as believers in Yeshua threatens to be diluted. Many Evangelical believers, both Gentile and Jewish, are uneasy with the ramifications of such a bilateral ecclesiology.
The link to the post on Mark Kinzer and Jesuit spirituality can be found here. But what I found particularly interesting was the debate carried on in the comments section afterwards. It becomes immediately clear how intense and passionate the current debate concerning ecclesiology and identity within MJ actually is.
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The Ecclesiological Debate Raging Within Messianic Judaism
6 January 2010
By Calvin L. Smith at 08:36
Labels: Messianic Judaism
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9 comments:
Calvin:
The blog you are giving attention to (Rosh Pina) engages in some rather mean-spirited attacks. They have a more recent post insinuating that a scholar's early days in Catholicism should discredit anything he has to say in the present. Are you sure you want to put your reputation in with these people?
Yes, I am one who spoke up in the comments and cried foul on the comparison between Mark Kinzer's book and liberation theology. The comparison is based on almost no connection (you could equally say the gospel Jesus preached is liberation theology and find some points of comparison).
Derek Leman
Dearest Derek
As stated, my post simply seeks to draw attention to several debates within MJ I've mentioned elsewhere, which many Evangelicals are unaware of. I'd be happy to include a link to your site if you like.
With the greatest respect, however, the bit about my reputation was itself just a tiny bit mean-spirited, don't you think? I'm hardly "putting my reputation in" with anyone simply by drawing attention to the comments in response to a blog. This was the thrust of my post (see last para): to highlight some of the bitter arguments taking place in MJ.
Respectfully
Calvin
Dear Derek,
I am surprised by your comment, but I think it reveals a deeper issue:
Neither yourself nor Mark Kinzer have a monopoly on Messianic Jewish identity. My point of view is strongly represented within the Messianic movement, yet I appreciate there are other positions, which is why we have a free and open comments section.
That was what Calvin was drawing attention to. You are, as ever, welcome to join in, however I hope you will not be asking me to take down blog posts and accusing me of not knowing anything about theology, as you have been done before.
Yeze
May I also contrast the attitudes of two Gentile commenters on Messianic Judaism: whereas Calvin is comfortable with his Gentile identity and accepts various forms of Messianic Jewish identity, Derek seems to reject his Gentile identity to be a pretend rabbi, and then exclude genuine forms of Messianic Jewish identity such as my own.
Yeze:
In case readers don't realize it, let me point out you are one of the anonymous Rosh Pina bloggers.
I said that in my opinion you engage in mean-spirited attacks. Do I need more evidence than your last comment saying I am a pretend rabbi and insecure with my birth as a non-Jew?
Derek "not anonymous" Leman
Clearly, there is previous history between you both. Not knowing anything about it, I wondered if it primarily an issue of style or substance? If the latter, what is the main theological disagreement?
Thanks. But I thought Derek espoused a bilateral ecclesiology, that is, separate Gentile and Jewish congregations, allowing each to retain their respective identities in Christ. Yet as I understood your comment, you are saying he wants Gentiles to convert to MJ. Or have I misunderstood you? Derek, would love to hear it from the horse's mouth, as it were.
Calvin - Interestingly, whilst this bilateral ecclesiology came from Kinzer, the President of the UMJC, Derek Leman is undergoing a conversion to become a Jew, and then a conversion to become a rabbi, with the UMJC under the tutelage of Carl Kinbar - the UMJC provost & second-in-command to Kinzer.
So why do Kinzer, Leman and Kinbar speak of a bilateral ecclesiology on the one hand, and then encourage Gentile conversions on the other?
This really doesn't make much sense.
Derek?
"Gene, you to were in an evangelical church in your early days were you not, do you not think they played a part in your faith?"
Gev, certainly. And I still have a wonderful, enriching and fulfilling time whenever I fellowship with non-Jewish Evangelical believers. Do you see me making qualitative judgments about Evangelicalism?
"TOM-J's (Torah observant Messianic Jews)now sit in self-pious judgement on other Messianic Jews, whom they sneer at as evangelicals and seek to disqualify as Messianic Jews..."
Gev, quite the oppose it the case. The fact is, I would say that it is the Hebrew Christians / Jewish Evangelicals, those who are having a hard time breaking away from the comfortable "mothership", who are making the harshest pronouncements and accusations about covenant-faithful Jews, trashing the reputation of many fine, pioneering Jewish leaders. Never before have I witnessed such vicious, slanderous attacks coming from Messianic JEWISH blogs (those who I would consider a covenantally-minded) towards Jewish Evangelicals and especially JE leaders.
"Gentile 'conversion' is making a mockery of the Messianic movement and bringing it into disrepute in both the Jewish and Christian world."
Please. You've blown this way, WAY out of proportion. You've come across a minority opinion of one MJ organization and this has given you the ammunition to launch a new attack to discredit traditional MJs. There are many things that bring "disrepute" in Messianic Jewish world, but the conversion controversy (conversion for non-salvation reasons, mind you!) is the least of it by far.
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